Today’s special bonus episode is long, but can you blame us? It’s for MIFV’s first anniversary! Nathan makes a rare OOC (out of character) appearance and is joined by Patron and former guest Danny DiManna, author/creator of the Godzilla Novelization Project, to party like 2020 is finally over. In the first half, they present a “George Lucas extended version” of their Kaiju Con-Line presentation, which was titled “The Original MCU: Connecting Showa Era Continuity.” Essentially, they weave 26 of Toho’s tokusatsu movies (and one TV series) into a Marvel-style shared universe. Then for the second half, they play, read, and discuss feedback from listeners who shared their favorite episodes and moments from the podcast’s first year—including two messages from the other side of the fourth wall! Two words: multiversal madness! This is followed by several big announcements, including the theme for season two of MIFV coming in 2021. You don’t want to miss it!
Dallas meant to say “Goji-Kong” and not “Goji-kun.” He gave our mascots/resident gremlins that “duo name” before the broadcast but misspoke on the air.
The actor from Godzilla (2014) and Avengers: Age of Ultron Nathan couldn’t remember was Aaron Taylor-Johnson. You lost some serious nerd points there, Marchand. (Also, he was the star of Kick-Ass).
IMDB does claim that James Conrad was likely named after author Joseph Conrad. It also mentions that Marlow was named after the protagonist in the author’s most famous novel, heart of Darkness. But this is IMDB we’re talking about here, so it may require a kaiju-sized grain of salt.
The Legendary Godzilla actually appeared throughout history and inspired mythologies, but this was between long naps. He was awakened by nuclear submarine on accident in 1954, which led to the Castle Bravo test meant to kill him.
Nathan neglected to mention that the town of Brookings, Oregon, has a 400-year-old samurai sword from a Japanese fighter pilot on display. Read about it here.
It was five months after the Cubs won (October 2016-March 2017). Nathan, you never were good at math-ing.
The name of Marlow’s Japanese friend was Gunpei Ikari. You lost some more nerd points there, Nathan.
The actor who played young Marlow and Marlow’s son was Will Britain.
No, I will not share the vacation photo I slipped into the slideshow briefing. The Internet couldn’t handle it.
It’s called a dump button, Nathan. “Drop button.” Sheesh!
Oldboy is no longer on Netflix, at least in the U.S.
Dallas, you said “literally” when you meant “figuratively”! I’m surprised Nathan didn’t chew you out for that. I would’ve said something, but it wasn’t that important.
Actually, from what I can tell, U.S. troop deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq are comparable to the Vietnam War. There’ve been 775,000 troops deployed at least once to Afghanistan. Mind you, those weren’t all at once. There were 340,000 U.S. troops stationed in and around Iraq when Baghdad fell in 2005, with 235,000 engaged in the war.
“Eight month hiatus” for the “Kong Quest” (ba-dun-ching)? More like seven months, Nathan (April-November). Again, you’ve never been good with numbers. 😛
And now to fulfill my contractual obligations, here are Nathan’s leftover notes:
The Film
Starts in WWII. Conflict between American and Japanese fighter pilot. Foreshadows Kong and Godzilla? The Japanese pilot is never seen after the opening, which is disappointing.
Young Marlow is a terrible shot.
“Skull Island: The land where God did not finish creation.” Interesting. “A place where myth and science meet.” Describes the MonsterVerse.
It’s implied that Hiddleston is also a disgraced soldier hardened by the war and the public.
Larson gives a much better performance here than in Captain Marvel. I actually like her here. She isn’t a block of wood.
This briefing scene is similar to one from Kong ’76. The island is also obscured by a perpetual storm, which is like the fog of ’76, but a little crazy.
How many helicopters are there? The number seems to shift.
I can’t help but think the close-ups of the Nixon bobblehead during Jackson’s Icarus speech and whatnot are meant to be commentaries on the war and foolhardiness.
Once they reach the island in 27 minutes, it really starts to feel like Apocalypse Now. That’s interesting because this film was largely shot in Vietnam. Director Vogt-Roberts became very fond of the country.
Kong’s anti-copter tree attack returns from King Kong Escapes!
This version of Skull Island has the most diverse wildlife. The giant buffalo is one of the most interesting.
The hollow Earth theory is brought up here for the first time.
I’ve been told the soldier being impaled by the bamboo spider was inspired by a film I never want to see: Cannibal Holocaust.
In this film we see Kong hunt.
The natives here are a bit odd. They have no crime or personal property (“beyond all that”). They don’t speak much. They have hallowed ground dedicated to Kong and will cut off people’s hands if they touch the wrong thing.
Kong is the god of the island, but the devils live below. “Kong is king around here.” Said like that because of copyright? This breaks the tradition of “King” not being given to him until he’s taken to civilization.
There’s still a wall like in most Kong films.
I feel sorry for this young guy. He wanders around alone for a long time and dies alone.
“The dangerous places are the most beautiful.” -Conrad
Like in 2005, Kong is lonely and the last of his kind, but he doesn’t seek companionship from a specific human. The closest is the tribe, which he protects.
The scientist getting dismembered by the lizard birds is…gruesome. Visceral.
“I’ve taken enough photos of mass graves to recognize one.” I don’t think this quite qualifies.
John Goodman gets killed off too soon, although he does help set up a cool set piece. He reminds me of the professor from Jurassic Park.
Man, that katana is sharp! It slices through lizard bird like paper!
There’s a lot of respect shown to the military and soldiers in this film.
In some ways, this film is an overcompensation for the perceived “problems” of G2014. The daylight complaint I’m tired of hearing. Some say it’s because it’s easier to hide SFX problems at night, but in this film, the characters aren’t brightly colored or have colorful attacks, so daylight makes sense.
FPS shots!
Kong is angry not only because his family is dead and he’s the last of his kind, but also because humans and Skullcrawlers keep invading his home. He attacks and kills humans intentionally because of this (unlike Godzilla). (Omni Viewer).
Packard dies just before Jackson can say his “famous line.”
1:37:00: Vertigo shot!
Once again Kong is caught in chains that he breaks. In this case, it wasn’t chains of captivity. Strength overcoming hardship. He then uses them and the boat rotors as weapons.
Kong saves Mason and golds her in his hand, but that’s the closest we get to classic Kong. Miraculously, she isn’t crushed in his hand when the Big One swallows Kong’s hand. Good thing she was unconscious.
Kong kills the Big One, it’s implied, out of gratitude for the protagonists helping him with Packard.
Director Vogt-Roberts wanted Kong to move like a mech, which is weird.
Vogt-Roberts went on a Twitter rant when CinemaSins released their video on the film.
Vogt-Roberts says he was reinventing the story not as man vs. nature but as man vs. god. Didn’t want to retell the beauty and the beast story.
Vogt-Roberts says in the 1970s, people were actively destroying myth, but these characters go where it still exists.
Kong needs to be huge to small his grandiosity, humans in the shadow of the colossus.
Vogt-Roberts says he loves flawed characters because that makes them interesting.
Vogt-Roberts did hope that people walked away wondering what role myth and nature play in their lives.
Early concepts were more gorilla-like, but Vogt-Roberts wanted him to be more movie monster, more Neanderthal-like.
ILM used komodo dragons, deer, and buffalo for reference for the Skullcrawlers. Looked at how deer and buffalo thrust their heads getting up.
Those working on the film say every Kong film brings with it technical innovation.
Most Americans know Vietnam through the war, and those photos were from the siuth. The north has completely different landscape. “Like a matte paiting.” –Vogt-Roberts
Brie Larson worked with real photographer and war correspondents. Her camera was real. She took photos on set. On blu-ray. Some used in film, some not.
Symbols painted on Iwi skin and woven into their clothing as form of communication and camouflage. They’re not indigenous. Collection of people who were stranded on island.
Post-credit scene wasn’t always in film. Vogt-Roberts believed in it, but it took a new technician who hadn’t seen the film before to say it should be included.
The Toku Topic
Soldiers grew more restless and doubted their purpose for being there and the government’s reasoning for doing so. Many suffered from PTSD and turned to vices like drugs. “On the collapse of U.S. morale, historian Shelby Stanton wrote: ‘In the last years of the Army’s retreat, its remaining forces were relegated to static security. The American Army’s decline was readily apparent in this final stage. Racial incidents, drug abuse, combat disobedience, and crime reflected growing idleness, resentment, and frustration… the fatal handicaps of faulty campaign strategy, incomplete wartime preparation, and the tardy, superficial attempts at Vietnamization. An entire American army was sacrificed on the battlefield of Vietnam.’” (Wikipedia)
ROTC enrollment dropped drastically from 191,749 in 1966 to 72,459 by 1971, and reached an all-time low of 33,220 in 1974,” depriving the military of much-needed leadership. (Wikipedia)
“In 1970, a joint U.S-South Vietnamese operation invaded Cambodia, hoping to wipe out DRV supply bases there. The South Vietnamese then led their own invasion of Laos, which was pushed back by North Vietnam. … The invasion of these countries, in violation of international law, sparked a new wave of protests on college campuses across America. During one, on May 4, 1970, at Kent State University in Ohio, National Guardsmen shot and killed four students. At another protest 10 days later, two students at Jackson State University in Mississippi were killed by police.” (History.com)
There was much insubordination among the ranks as the war went on (which sounds like the film when Packard’s men turn on him). “Ron Milam has questioned the severity of the ‘breakdown’ of the U.S. armed forces, especially among combat troops, as reflecting the opinions of ‘angry colonels’ (can you say Packard?) who deplored the erosion of traditional military values during the Vietnam War. Although acknowledging serious problems, he questions the alleged ‘near mutinous’ conduct of junior officers and enlisted men in combat. Investigating one combat refusal incident, a journalist declared, ‘A certain sense of independence, a reluctance to behave according to the military’s insistence on obedience, like pawns or puppets…The grunts [infantrymen] were determined to survive…they insisted of having something to say about the making of decisions that determined whether they might live or die.’ The morale and discipline problems and resistance to conscription were important factors leading to the creation of an all-volunteer military force by the United States and the termination of conscription. The last conscript was inducted into the army in 1973. The all-volunteer military moderated some of the coercive methods of discipline previously used to maintain order in military ranks.”
“President Ronald Reagan coined the term ‘Vietnam Syndrome’ to describe the reluctance of the American public and politicians to support further military interventions abroad after Vietnam. In the same speech, he voiced support for the war and its veterans, saying, “It is time we recognized that ours was, in truth, a noble cause. A small country newly free from colonial rule sought our help in establishing self-rule and the means of self-defense against a totalitarian neighbor bent on conquest. We dishonor the memory of 50,000 young Americans who died in that cause when we give way to feelings of guilt as if we were doing something shameful, and we have been shabby in our treatment of those who returned. They fought as well and as bravely as any Americans have ever fought in any war. They deserve our gratitude, our respect, and our continuing concern.”
“The Vietnam War POW/MIA issue, concerning the fate of U.S. service personnel listed as missing in action, persisted for many years after the war’s conclusion. The costs of the war loom large in American popular consciousness; a 1990 poll showed that the public incorrectly believed that more Americans lost their lives in Vietnam than in World War II.” (Wikipedia)
That’s everything for this week. My apologies for posting it late. With us pumping out bonus episodes to entertain and enlighten everyone in quarantine thanks to COVID-19, the episode took precedence over my blog.
Regardless, next week you’ll hear Nathan’s discussion of Battle in Outer Space—the second entry in Toho’s “pseudo-trilogy”—with Luke Jaconetti from the Earth Destruction Directive podcast. Then for the first episode in May, Nathan starts what could be called the “Summer of Mothra” with a discussion of Rebirth of Mothra with Bex from the Redeemed Otaku podcast.
We’ve finally reached the MonsterVerse! After surviving in the wilds of Monster Island for two months, Dallas Mora from Geek Devotions joins Nathan to discuss the Eighth Wonder’s latest cinematic adventure, Kong: Skull Island. This pulpy adventure movie directed by Jordan Vogt-Roberts took Kong in a whole new direction, dropping his lovesickness and making him a benevolent but savage protector. Nathan and Dallas dive headlong into the film’s rich backstory as explored in its comic book prequel, Skull Island: The Birth of Kong; discuss the colorful cast of characters played by a troupe of Marvel movie actors; and realize that Kong is the Batman of the MonsterVerse. The Toku Topic is the end of the Vietnam War, which leads to a poignant discussion that touches on pacifism, “just war” theory, and the treatment of war veterans (like the podcast’s intrepid producer, Jimmy From NASA).
A quick note: Due to Godzilla vs. Kong’s release being delayed to November, we’ll be taking a detour from the “Kong Quest” (ba-dum-ching) until then by covering films featuring other “kaiju kings.” Listen to find out who’s first!
Kong: Skull Island Blu-ray Special Features: Director’s Commentary (Jordan Vogt-Roberts), “Creating a King: Realizing an Icon,” “Creating a King: Summoning a God,” “Monarch Files 2.0,” “Tom Hiddleston: The Intrepid Traveler,” “Through the Lens: Brie Larson’s Photography,” “On Location: Vietnam.”
Kong Unmade: The Lost Films of Skull Island by John LeMay
The Vault is now under new management—Jimmy From NASA! Yes, after starting a betting pool during Nathan’s livestream of Override: Mech City BrawlFriday night and cleaning out the Monster Island Board of Directors, Jimmy became the new host of the podcast but kept Nathan on as his producer. Nathan is still a bit sore about that, as you’ll hear, but Jimmy is sure he’ll get over it.
For his first episode, Jimmy is discussing his favorite unmade Kong film: “Space Kong.” This was a wild idea that came about in the 1960s while Merian C. Cooper was corresponding with comic book publisher Western/Gold Key Comics to produce a comic adaptation of original film and a sequel. This would’ve featured the children of the original characters and Carl Denham still young from finding the Fountain of Youth. Cooper suggested setting it on another planet with “King Kong reincarnated.” While Jimmy first learned of this lost project through a book written by his (first) flame war nemesis, John LeMay, he showed up that know-it-all by buying Cooper’s long lost story treatment for this proposed film on eBay using his newfound wealth. Be the first to hear about it in today’s episode!
All right, this blog, like last week’s episode on King Kong 2005, wants to be as long as that film. Thanks to contractual obligations, I have to include all of Marchand’s unused notes, which he split between his computer and a legal pad for whatever reason this time. I am suddenly more appreciative of the glorious invention that is copy and paste.
Let’s get this over with,
shall we?
My Notes:
Yes, I borrowed Dr. Aoki’s pteronadon bot without permission. I don’t think he’s missed it yet. So, unless he gets transfer to Monster Island, I don’t think it’ll be a problem. As for flying Danny here on it, well, I couldn’t resist taking it for a test flight. I now know how to improve on the thing’s admittedly goofy design.
I dare you to tell me you don’t like sand, DiManna!
I am fine with Daniel calling me “Jimbo”…for now. (Yes, I’m being flippant).
Nice job catching me before I corrected you, Marchand.
Actually, Danny, the dinosaur Kong fights in the original isn’t a Rex. It’s closer to an Allosaurus. It’s just called a “meat-eater” in the novelization.
Actually, Danny, I don’t think gorillas—even Kong—qualify as predators. At least in this film. Normal gorillas are vegetarians, but some do eat insects. Kong in this film was never seen eating meat. Therefore, he doesn’t qualify as a predator.
Jackson himself didn’t say he treated this like filming on Skull Island itself in the 1930s. That was a crewmember. Watch that $5 blu-ray again.
Mothra’s not a butterfly, Daniel! Her species is obvious! (Or was that a joke? I’ll forgive a joke. 😛 ).
I can neither confirm nor deny that I am the Jimmy in this film. And yes, like the Doctor, I will explain later. Maybe.
There were more than just the two crewmembers who survived in the 1933 King Kong, Daniel.
King Kong (1976) is two hours and 14 minutes long. Over one hour shorter.
“I had saw it on the big screen”? Verb tenses, Danny! I expect better from a writer. 😛
Here’s the Roger Ebert review Nathan brought up (and yes, you misremembered what he said). Here’s the video review.
They aren’t T-Rexes, Nathan. They’re V-Rexes. Both of you got it wrong!
“PJ’s version”? Danny is on initials terms with Peter Jackson? I doubt it. 😛
It wasn’t trailers but one of Peter Jackson’s video diaries on www.kongisking.net where he announced back-to-back sequels to the film. They were Son of Kong and King Kong: Into the Wolf’s Lair. And I agree: they would’ve been amazing! You can watch it here with a fan edit trailer. Sadly, it includes a stupid clip from the stupid Date Movie. Ugh!
You got your Bugs Bunny cartoons mixed up, Danny. The one you were thinking of was “What’s Up Doc?” not “Show Biz Bugs” (which you called “Show Biz Bunny”). The latter is about a jealous Daffy Duck trying to upstage Bugs on stage.
My whole backstory will be in my tell-all book, War in Space: The Jimmy From NASA Story. 😛
My international man of mystery Schick gets me more luck the ladies more than you have, Marchand! 😛
I’m happy to say, as promised in this episode, I am now one of Danny’s patrons on Patreon—and I used Nathan’s debit card to do it! 😛
The sexist essay Nathan was referring to (and forgot to include in the show notes) was “The Myth Goes Downward: The Infantilization, Electrification, Mechanization, and General Diminishment of King Kong” by Paul Di Filippo. It’s from the book Kong Unbound: The Cultural Impact, Pop Mythos, and Scientific Plausibility of a Cinematic Legend.
Nathan’s Unused Notes – Blu-Ray Special Features:
Jackson saw King Kong 1933 as a kid in 1970. It
inspired his love of science fiction and fantasy and his desire to be a
filmmaker. He made super 8 films and stop motion. There’s lots of SFX in his
films because he was a “frustrated special effects guy.” Solitary. (-Sounds like me, except I work on robots
and mecha. –Jimmy)
Universal
approached him in 1995 to remake either Kong
or The Creature from the Black Lagoon.
The first script
was closer in tone to The Mummy (1999).
Work was done in
1996 by Weta using lots of practical effects.
Jackson and his
crew visited the Empire State Building, and he signed his name on the peak.
The film wasn’t
storyboarded. It was all pre-viz. No finished script at the time it started.
It had more
miniatures than The Lord of the Rings.
Started with T-Rex
fight like the original film as proof of concept.
Naomi Watts had to
learn how to dance. Jamie Bell (Jimmy) had danced since age 6. (So…I can neither confirm nor deny that I,
too, can dance. –Jimmy)
Jack Black tapped
into his inner-Denham by using an old camera to make short films. Boxer and
criminal.
First shot filmed
was when Ann arrives at dock.
The boat bought
for the production had fish in it that had to be shipped out.
Jackson got
seasick, so he shot on sets.
Jackson says the
natives aren’t based on a particular civilization but are an amalgam of several
from that time. They use their hair to make clothing. The actors came from
Polynesia, Cambodia, etc.
The dinosaurs
weren’t paleontologically accurate but stylized and more evolved. The V-Rexes
were a family (mother, father, juvenile). Some like the Wetasaur were made up.
They used a
massive computer system to from LOTR to make CGI extras. They don’t fight like
Orcs but walk like New Yorkers—any differences? jokes Jackson.
Weta wrote a new
program called Building Bot to create missing buildings in NYC cityscape.
The real Empire
State Building took 14 months to construct. The digital version took 18 months.
Irony. (Digital construction is harder
than real construction. I should know. I worked at NASA. –Jimmy)
Peter Jackson,
Rick Baker, Frank Darabont, and other famous people attached to Kong flew the
airplanes that attacked Kong as a nod to Schoedsack and Cooper doing that in
the 1933 original. Jackson even shaved his trademark beard! (I’m not even sure that was Jackson. Like
Jonathan Frakes as Riker on Star Trek: The Next Generation, he looks like a completely different
person. Maybe he was dubbed over by the real Jackson? 😛 –Jimmy)
Kong is a misunderstood
monster. Weta watched Charles Laughton in The
Hunchback of Notre Dame for inspiration.
They made him a
punch-drunk boxer and mountain man. They used an albino gorilla at a zoo for
inspiration. (Can you say, “Kiko”? –Jimmy).
His broken jaw was modeled after an inbred pug named Monster. It was toned
down later (as you’ll notice in the first trailer). He was redesigned
after the first trailer.
The final
reference used for Kong was Umagami the ape from an IMAX film. The filmmakers
ultimately decided he should look like a real gorilla.
Gorillas beat
chests with open cupped hands while movie gorillas use fists. They compromised
by having hands between open and clenched.
Some mocap was dropped,
but Serkis was used as reference.
Jackson said this
was always the film he wanted to make.
Nathan’s Unused Notes – The Film:
The opening
credits are like original.
Opens with apes
and monkeys in zoo next to a Hooverville. Then we go to Vaudeville clips. Cuts
between that and images of Depression. Alcohol bottles smashed. Prohibition.
Naomi Watts’
costume looks just like Fay Wray’s.
I never knew there
were that many nicknames for breasts in the ‘30s.
“Universal is
desperate for stock footage!” (4th wall)
Maybe it’s the
writer in me, but I like that Jack Driscoll is a playwright in this. “If you
really loved it, you would’ve jumped” (Denham to Jack).
Jimmy?! Is that my
producer?! Stowed away. Found in hold 4 years ago. Arm broken in two places.
Wouldn’t say where he came from. He’s a prankster. Defaces Baxter’s posters.
Jimmy can dance!
Live animals in
cage sign on Jack’s cage. Symbolic?
Was it necessary
to have the typing of Skull Island be in slo-mo?
Ann and Jack’s
relationship gets more development in this than original. All the characters
get more development. Helps that it’s 3 hours long!
Sure, hold the
important map over the edge of the ship! Yep! There it goes!
Is it just me or
did the rock the Venture bumps into
at 51 minutes look like a huge face? One definitely does later.
Of course there
are skulls on Skull Island.
Jackson is a
little overly fond of scary slo-mo in this film.
Ann screams and
then Kong roars. Appropriate.
The wall and
natives definitely remind me of LOTR. There’s a chasm as well as a wall. That
helps explain how the creatures are kept out.
Triceratops’ twitching
tail homage to original?
I love that Lumpy
tries to kill a bug with a frying pan. Then he shoots them.
“There’s only one
creature capable of leaving a footprint that size…and that’s me!” (Lumpy)
“Nobody’s gonna
think these are fake”(4th wall).
These raptors are
crazy. Going after prey that huge?!
Wilhelm scream!
Preston looks like
he’s heard this speech many times.
“I’m just an actor
with a gun who’s lost his motivation” (4th wall).
We see Kong eating
plants like a real gorilla.
Kong blocks Ann’s
way like in ’76.
Running around
barefoot in a jungle must be tearing up her feet.
Water scorpions?
Man, everything on this island is crazy aggressive.
And Denham becomes
a snuff filmmaker.
Not all CGI. Some
practical creature effects.
Kong does pick up
a man: Hayes.
The iconic log
scene recreated. Tries to account for surviving fall by having it get caught on
vines.
It’s hard not to
invite Jurassic Park comparisons.
Quietest. V-Rex.
Ever!
I love that Kong
stands with one foot on V-Rex when he beats his chest.
The shot of Jack
and Ann running through the jungle looks just like ’33.
The Broadway sign
looks just like ’33.
“The Beast”: a
working title for ’33.
“Kong’s unfailing
ability to destroy the things he loves.”
Kong starts
grabbing every blonde he sees. From the real jungle to the urban/concrete
jungle.
The trolley attack
references the train attack in ’33.
The military
attacking Kong makes me think of a Japanese kaiju film.
Wow. The biplanes
deploy without anyone talking about it. Dang!
I wonder which cameos
were in the planes Kong destroyed?
Now the pilots see
Ann. They only almost killed her once.
The soldiers pose and
smile over Kong’s corpse. Sensationalize.
Nathan’s Unused Notes – King Kong: The History of a Movie Icon by Ray Morton:
Robert Zemeckis
would’ve been the executive on Jackson’s 1997 script for Kong if it was filmed.
The Frighteners
poor performance shook Universal’s confidence in Jackson.
Jack Driscoll was
modeled after Arthur Miller (All My Sons,
Death of a Salesman, A View from the Bridge).
Jackson sought to
combine elements of Cooper’s beastly Kong with de Laurentiis’s more romantic
Kong. Saw him as a battle-hardened silverback. He told the Los Angles times he
saw Kong as “a very old gorilla [that has] never felt a single bit of empathy
for another living creature during his long…brutal life.” Kong intended to kill
Ann, “and then he slowly moves away from that and it comes full circle.”
Nathan’s Unused Notes – “King Kong’s Melancholly” by
Cynthia Erb:
Jackson called Universal’s cancelation of his original Kong script “the blackest day in my entire career.”
Argues that Jackson’s Kong is melancholy and shifts the emphasis from horror to mood and tears because Watts’ Ann cries more than she screams.
Argues that the extended cut frames Kong as an invader and presents the U.S. as “a bullying global entity at a stage of late empire” a la Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness.
Says Jackson’s Kong reframes history through a modern lens (9/11 allegory).
Uses the “Depression” to set a mood of “depression.” Focused on objects, which leads to melancholy. Watts’ Ann is earthy, hungry.
This Ann is less afraid of predatory men than of being put into a “standardized role.” An indication of modernity. She gets up to leave when Denham wonders if she’d fit in a size four dress.
Says Black’s manic Denham makes him a character type called an intriguer or schemer, which also characterized Shakespeare’s Iago in Othello. This forms a “dyadic relationship” with the depressive Kong.
Argues that Jackson’s Kong is driven not by a sex drive but by a “death drive.” Jacqueline Rose: “The death drive is identified by Freud in the moment when the child seeks to master absence by staging the recall of the lost object, but finds it can only do so by first making the object disappear. This allows the child to achieve its aim only by repeating the very moment it is designed to avoid.” Compares Kong to Norman Bates in Psycho. Compulsive repetition.
The Manhattanites and Islanders are paralleled in that both are shown to survivors in a harsh environment.
Argues that the overzealous soldiers attacking Kong in Central Park, seeing him as an invader and New York as “sacred ground,” is an allegory for 9/11. Argues that this goes further with the skeletal Empire State Building in the morning, which parallels Art Spiegelman’s 9/11 memoir In the Shadow of No Towers. Kong seemingly mouthing “beautiful” on top of the structure recalls how American towers were seen as “utopian gestures…transcendental, sky-catching, awesome” (Mark Kingwell).
https://gfycat.com/flatwhichaustralianfurseal
Well, I’m glad that’s
done. If you read the whole thing, congrats!
Join us next week for a
(hopefully) much shorter episode on another epic: the 1959 Toho classic The Three Treasures, starring Toshiro
Mifune. Then the “Kong Quest” enters the MonsterVerse with Kong: Skull Island in April with Dallas Mora of Geek Devotions as the guest host.
Follow me on Twitter: @NasaJimmy #JimmyFromNASALives #WeShallOvercome
It’s an epic episode for
an epic movie! No, not that stupid
parody film. Nathan is joined by Daniel DiManna, the creator and author of The Godzilla
Novelization Project, to discuss Peter Jackson HUGE 2005 remake of King Kong. (Although, Danny had to
survive a harrowing trip to Monster Island with the podcast’s intrepid
producer, Jimmy From NASA, and a
certain robot dinosaur to do so). Only Peter Jackson, who was fresh off of The Lord of the Rings, could’ve made a
three hour film about a giant monkey, er, ape. Nathan and Danny do a deep dive
into the film’s characters, themes, and story while struggling not to get Jack
Driscoll and Jack Black confused. They freely admit this is the one giant
monster movie that makes them cry. They also learn that the young man named
Jimmy in this film may or may not be the podcast’s producer. (Confused? Join
the club). The Toku Topic is vaudeville since Ann Darrow in this film is a
vaudeville performer before getting work on Carl Denham’s movie.
Nathan promises to not
make a habit of producing episodes that cross what Danny calls “the Kurosawa
threshold.” 😛
Timestamps: Intro: 0:00-6:08
Entertaining Info Dump: 6:08-15:29
Toku Talk: 15:29-1:55:52
Toku Topic: 1:55:52-2:29:43
Outro: 2:29:43-end
King Kong: The History of a Movie Icon from Fay Wray
to Peter Jackson by Ray Morton
“King Kong’s
Melancholy: A Reading of Peter Jackson’s King
Kong” by Cynthia Erb (from Tracking
King Kong: A Hollywood Icon in World Culture, 2nd Edition)
Kong Unmade: The Lost Films of Skull Island by John LeMay
A Night in Vaudeville (King Kong Blu-Ray)
Recreating the Eighth Wonder: The Making of King Kong (King
Kong Blu-Ray)
Last week’s episode on King Kong Liveswas certainly an interesting one. It was both informative and entertaining. Nathan “survived” in true Mystery Science Theatre 3000 fashion while John LeMay made a valiant defense of the movie. I did not pipe in as much because, as listeners will remember, John and I had a spat when I refused to show him my garage. I did not get a chance to explain it was because I needed to make sure it was clean and safe for visitors. That was all.
Anyway, here are my notes
on the episode:
I did not want to disappoint you on the air, John, but I am actually a natural brunette. I dye my hair red. In other words, I still have a soul. Or did I lose it when I dyed my hair?
About those so-called “magic artificial hearts”: The Island’s Board of Directors acquired Dr. Amy Franklin’s design and attempted to improve upon it. I can neither confirm nor deny that experiments may have been conducted on kaiju that aren’t as big a draw for Tourists….
Baby Kong was played by seven-year-old Benjamin Kechley. And yes, I think he should have bragging rights for life.
Surprisingly, Nathan was wrong about the Superman film John was talking about. (He is as obsessed with superheroes as he is kaiju. God help me when he takes a deep dive into Ultraman…). It was Superman II from 1980 that had the Eiffel Tower scene, which did involve terrorists with hostages and a bomb. You can watch it here and here.
I have a plenty of material to do a War in Space panel at G-Fest, John. I mean, I lived it. And miraculously survived it. But like Nathan said, someone has to take care of the studio while he is gone, and we are more or less a two-man operation. Maybe I will get some time off when the film’s 45th anniversary rolls around….
Here’s a link to the Godziban playlist on the official Toho Godzilla YouTube channel. It is the show Nathan and John mention briefly where Godzilla Junior and Minya get along. I cannot vouch for its accuracy.
John is both right and wrong about the dinosaur fights in the Lovelace novelization. Kong does fight a triceratops—several, in fact—but he later he also fights a “meat-eater” dinosaur, which may or may not have been a T-Rex. There is some debate over it.
It’s “Monsterverse” not “Godzilla universe,” John. 😛
The confusing things about Kong: King of Skull Island is there appears to be two of them. Maybe? Here is this on Amazon (and Wikizilla), but there’s also a Kickstarter for an illustrated version in 2018. I am guessing the latter is what sparked the lawsuit they mention.
The person John could not remember who pitched Skull Island: Blood of the Kong with Neil Marshall was Simon Uttley.
The Kong Netflix series is Kong: King of the Apes. It is a children’s series and currently has two seasons. Here is a link to its official page.
Here
are the many notes Nathan did not get to during the episode. Admittedly, some
of them are riffs that require context not given in the note. Basically, watch
the film chronologically (if you dare!) and you may be able to find what he is
talking about. So, buckle up because there is a lot.
They edited in different roars for the flashback. Not as good.
I wonder how much Bridges and Lange were paid for that stock footage?
Music courtesy of John Williams’ leftovers.
How is Kong not a furry mound of jelly?
Admittedly, this continuous opening shot for the credits isn’t bad.
We see Lady Kong in less than 8 minutes. (Kong meets a female of his species and suddenly forgets about blondes?) (Mrs. Kong theory from episode 4).
“Can you hear me now?” Verizon, anyone?
“I’m in love with a gorilla!”
Disneyland? Why not Universal Studios?
“The only living ape.” Because all the normal-sized ones have died out in ten years?
“I left a trail of bananas.” Don’t make fun of yourself, movie. That’s my job!
As usual, Kong breaks his chains of captivity.
Did those apes just have a love at first sight moment?
Yeah, the dozers will stop him.
“They’ll need a doctor after they get a whiff of this gas.” I never should’ve eaten that breakfast burrito!
The action hero trope: the big bad male hero can take a beating and not flinch, but he winces when a woman tends his wounds. Nice job, Kong.
Are those natives on Kong’s Island burnt out drunks like Jack said? Would they let outsiders build a reserve then?
Welcome to Movie Land, where people fall in love and make out at the drop of a hat. Justification: This is what primates do.
Oh no! The flamethrowers return! How is Kong not PTSD-ing right now?
There’s a torrential downpour, but the sun is out.
There are a lot of pop culture references in this. Indiana Jones. Deliverance. Juicy Fruit.
You’re telling me none of the doctors the military brought in figured out Lady Kong was pregnant?
There are points this feels more like a post-1976 King Kong knockoff than an actual Kong film.
Don’t you guys know that Kong hates flashbulbs?
“Well, Kong, you’ve killed now. Nothing will stop them from killing you now.” Did you miss the first movie?
Kong is a tactician. He throws pocket sand at the military before attacking. 😛 (“Pocket sand!” -Dale from King of the Hill).
These are Nathan’s
leftover notes from King Kong: History of
a Movie Icon from Fay Wray to Peter Jackson by Ray Morton:
De Laurentiis
wanted to do a sequel from get-go. At one point even discussed a
Frankenstein-like idea with Semple.
Sequel never
manifested because De Laurentiis was either disappointed it didn’t out-gross Jaws or because he didn’t want to have
to deal with Universal.
In the ensuing
years, he bought Embassy Pictures and made it into his own studio, De
Laurentiis Entertainment Group (DEG).
John Guillermin
returned as director. Both he and De Laurentiis had lost sons in the
intervening years, so their relationship had mellowed.
Carlo Rambaldi was
brought back on for the special effects. He’d won several Oscars for his work
since 1976.
Despite not liking
the script, Brian Kerwin took the role because he was offered lots and money
and he was the lead. He said later that monkey was the lead and he was set
dressing. He also wanted to be picked up by Kong.
New suit actors were
brought in, both male. Kong’s hair was Icelandic yak fur.
They tried to make
Kong ’86 look like Kong ’76, but it didn’t quite work. The former is brown and
the latter black. Face was different with more expressive mask.
Kong’s biological
heart is a replica of a real gorilla heart. The artificial heart is a fantasy
creation. Kerwin considered making it into a coffee table.
Ran into budget
problems because DEG was hit hard by new tax laws. Some sequences were trimmed
or eliminated. It wasn’t filmed in Brazil and Jamaica and instead was filmed in
Tennessee and Wilmington.
All the fake blood
in the Kong transplant scene made an extra pass out.
Kerwin read all 22
Travis McGee novels in his downtime. One actor directed community theatre!
Kerwin said de
Laurentiis was “braggadocious and stingy.”
Guillermin was
mellower but often still intense.
Hamilton was in a
bad mood all the time according to Kerwin.
Baker refused to come
back due to unreasonable conditions and the Oscars dustup, so it went to Peter
Elliott, an acrobat and veteran costume performer. He did ape choreography in Greystoke: The Legend of Tarzan. His
friend George Yiasomi played Lady Kong, but a “Greek guy” was brought in to do
the close-ups of her eyes.
The actors played
the apes like animals around each other and more human-like around humans.
Elliot based his performance on James Dean! (Indiana connection!)
The courtship
scene was over-the-top but Elliott based their actions on real apes but
performed it in a tongue-in-cheek manner.
No Oscars noms,
but Rambaldi was nominated for a Razzie for worst visual effects.
“You’ve got
Indiana Jones.” Now there’s a crossover I’d love to see! Now there is a crossover
I’d watch in a heartbeat! Pun intended. #KingKong #KingKongLives
“Lady Kong”? Is it
because “Queen Kong” was taken in a slightly better movie?
These doctors are
performing surgery with giant egg beaters? #KingKong #KingKongLives
Let’s spend
millions of dollars to resurrect the rampaging monster who killed dozens of
people and cost millions and property damage. This can only ending [in] good.
#KingKong #KingKongLives
That’s not an
artificial hard—it’s a submarine! Makes me wish this was a crossover between
#KingKong and Fantastic Voyage. #KingKongLives
“#KingKong, you
just came back from the dead! What are you going to do next?“ “Get laid.” That
must’ve been one heck of a wet dream he was having for 10 years.
You know your
sequel is in trouble when the flashback to the mediocre remake has the best
special-effects.#KingKong #KingKongLives
“The other monkeys
going ape $&@#!” [L]eave the bad puns to me, movie.#KingKong #KingKongLives
#KingKong and Lady
Kong: Still a better love story than #Twilight. #KingKongLives
Lady Kong is
scared of (normal-sized) snakes. Of course. #KingKong #KingKongLives
If all it took to
get a girlfriend was dying and being resurrected, I have tried it a long time
ago. #KingKong #KingKongLives
“Bring in the Big
Bird!” Hey, it’s not yellow and teaching me to count! #KingKong #KingKongLives
It was a lack of
protein killed the beast. And no wonder: he keeps eating rubber gators.
When you howl at
the moon, sometimes the moon howls back.#KingKong #KingKongLives
Please, sir, I
want some more stomach blows. #KingKong #KingKongLives
#KingKong almost
became a slasher movie villain by killing some horny teenagers. All he was
missing was a knife and a huge hockey mask. Yet another amusing crossover: King
Kong and Friday the 13th. #KingKongLives
#KingKong:
Defeated by rednecks. I was an icon once. #KingKongLives
“My dad’s gonna
kill me! We didn’t switch to Geico and add giant monkey insurance!“ #KingKong
#KingKongLives
Lt. Cola? Is that
soda for soldiers? I guess if #Godzilla endorses Dr. Pepper, Kong should get
something. #KingKong #KingKongLives (Lt. Col. A. Nevitt). Haha!
Kong: I ate
red(neck) meat! I’m not afraid to eat white (guy) meat! #KingKong
#KingKongLives
#KingKong just
crashed a hoedown. Now I’ve seen everything. #KingKongLives
Is this general
play[ed] by our young Don Frye? Is he Captain Gordon’s grandpa? #KingKong
#KingKongLives
So what if
#KingKong is dead. Just cure him with another artificial heart. #KingKongLives
From the World
Trade Center to a barn in redneck country. Talk about coming down in life.
#KingKong #KingKongLives
Finally, here are some
unused notes about the convoluted King Kong copyright:
Supposedly Eisner
also discussed the idea with Sidney Sheinberg, chief operating officer of MCA
(Universal), which was hot off the positive early reviews for Jaws and wanted
another marauding animal film. Negotiations started around the same time as De
Laurentis. Agreed to pay same amount up front but balked at sharing the gross.
Lots of studio politics involved. Word has it that the Universal offer was
preferred. Attorney Arnold Shane thought Universal won the rights, and
Stromberg hired Oscar-winning screenwriter Bo Goldman (One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s
Nest, Melviun and Howard) to write a script. Meanwhile, De Laurentis’ offer was
accepted. Universal protested saying that despite not signing a written
contract, they took Daniel O’Shea’s supposed comment as a binding verbal
agreement. Universal sued for $25 million in damages in June 1975 accusing
RKO-General of “breach of contract” and “fraud” and De Laurentis of
international interference with advantageous business relations” and “unfair
competition.” De Laurentis was surprised by Universal’s claim but thought it
was invalid because he had a signed contract, so he pressed on confidently.
Sept. 1975:
Superior Court of LA dismissed Universal’s claim, saying the verbal agreement
was “tissue-paper thin.” Universal then filed a second claim having learned the
novelization of Kong, which had some different material, had fallen into the
public domain in 1960 thanks to the Copyright Law of 1909 that set the
copyright to 28 years. The studio claimed they weren’t infringing on RKO’s
films—the “new” material—while the “old material” was in public domain. They
announced their new film would be based on the novel, and told Bo Goldman to
revise his script to conform to the novel. Joseph Sargent (Colossus: The Forbin
Project, The Taking Pelham 123) was hired to direct. De Laurentis said he would
start casting in December for his film. Unsure if the name King Kong was owned
by RKO, they changed their film’s title to The Legend of King Kong to be
safe. De Laurentis responded by changing
his to King Kong: The Legend Reborn.
RKO filed a
countersuit November 20 against Universal in Federal District Court for $5
million for copyright infringement and asked for an injunction for the studio
to stop promoting the film. De Laurentis filed his own suit December 4 for $90
million in damages caused by “copyright infringement and unfair competition.”
He also filed an injunction against Universal. Universal forced the issue by
saying they’d start filming Jan. 5, which was a bluff. The market would only support one remake, and
whoever started shooting first would likely win. De Laurentis moved production
up, hastily starting Jan. 15 and having the crew work 16-hour days. This
required money he didn’t have, but he was determined.
Universal
allegedly approached De Laurentis about settling after he announced when they’d
begin filming. They discussed a joint production, but De Laurentis didn’t like
Universal’s demands. They wanted their script to be used and merchandising and
sequel rights. Barry Diller and
Paramount threatened to pull out if he didn’t settle, so he started talking
with Universal.
De Laurentis and
Ubniversial announced Jan. 28, 1976, that they’d reached agreement. Universal
got 8% or 11% percent of De Laurentis’ profits, certain merchandising rights
and profits, and veto power on sequels by agreeing to cancel their film. They could also start their own film so long
as it was 18 months after the release of De Laurentis’ film. If it was hit,
there would be no need, and if it was a flop, there would no interest in one.
Silly move. Universal didn’t get to make their own until 2005 with Peter
Jackson. The lawsuit was settled in September.
Oh man. This might be my longest Jimmy’s Notes yet. This is what happens when you are a producer on a podcast with a host who over-prepares. My contractual obligation to post all of these in my blog does not help. You win that front, Marchand!
Anyway, join us next week
when Daniel DiManna of the Godzilla Novelization
Project joins us to discuss Peter Jackson’s epic 2005 remake of King Kong.
Despite a slight delay thanks to MIFV mascots Goji-kun and Bro Kong hiding Nathan’s laptop, the unavoidable has happened: King Kong Lives. John LeMay, author of Kong Unmade and other kaiju books, returns to Monster Island to discuss the Godzilla vs. Megalon of the Kong series—and John un-ironically likes it! This ill-fated sequel to Dino de Laurentiis’s 1976 remake stars Linda Hamilton, fresh off of her star-making role in The Terminator, as a scientist who resurrects King Kong with an artificial heart…because that cures falling off of a building. Not only that, he “falls in love” with Lady Kong, a female giant gorilla, which leads to most of the Kong film tropes getting turned on their ears. Also, King Kong eats rednecks. Yep. Nathan goes full-tilt MST3K with this movie, but he riffs because he loves. That is, when he isn’t mediating a conflict between John and the show’s intrepid producer, Jimmy From NASA. The Toku Topic is the convoluted King Kong copyright, which came to a head twice when Universal tried to sue Dino de Laurentiis in the 1970s and Nintendo in the early 1980s. Hear all about it in the newest episode of The Monster Island Film Vault!
You can buy the hardcover of John’s book Kong Unmade on Amazon.
With there being five
Wednesdays in January (for which I’m grateful because it gives me an extra week
to edit the next episode), I thought I’d give all of you a bonus blog. I toyed
with several ideas, but it was my intrepid producer, Jimmy From NASA, who suggested a blog
on his Entertaining Info Dump. Normally, I’d have only done it because of those
darn contractual obligations, but it’s also been a part of the podcast that
listeners have appreciated, so it’s worth giving a peek behind the curtain to
explain it.
Believe it or not, Jimmy based it on the “film descriptions” Brian Scherschel and I developed on my previous podcast, Kaijuvision Radio. Apparently, Jimmy was a fan of the show before I left it. As he said on the first episode of MIFV, this was a great way to get preliminary information out of the way before diving into the film discussion. It’s also more interesting to listen to than a simple plot synopsis and, well, info dump. You can get all of that from a wiki page. Several of them, actually. They also make it possible to compare these films to each other.
There are different
subheadings for these essays, although they’re never mentioned. Those
subheadings are:
The (primary)
kaiju plot line and characteristics/goals
Other kaiju plot
lines and characteristics/goals
The human plot
line
Human and kaiju
plot intermix level
Attempts to solve
the issue at hand
How the issue is
resolved
Story complexity
Production quality
Light/Dark Tone,
gravity/seriousness, and fantasy/reality
Experimentation
level
Reinforcement vs.
Expansion of Style
Movie purpose and
demographics
Success Level
Difference between
original version of that film and the other versions
The forces at play
The theme(s)
Most of these are
self-explanatory. The first half or so summarizes the most important facets of
the film’s story. All but the last two give production and background information
on each movie. The last two focus on thematic elements.
However, there are two
that Jimmy insists I highlight because one is unique and the other could be
confused with it. That being the “expansion vs. reinforcement of style” and “experimentation
level.”
What do we mean by expansion
and reinforcement of style? With long-running franchises and series like King Kong
(or Godzilla), some entries introduce new story types, tropes, or other elements
that are emulated in later ones. They’re the films that break the mold, the
firsts of their kind. This is admittedly a little subjective, especially since
some films have a mix of both, but these elements can be objectively identified.
For example, Son of Kong was an
expansion of style for the Kong films because it introduced the idea of a Kong offspring
and was the first “Son/Daughter of…” type film to come out in any film series.
However, King Kong Escapes, while
primarily a reinforcement of the styles of King
Kong (1933) and The King Kong Show,
did make one expansion by having a “love interest” who sympathized with Kong.
Experimentation level, on
the other hand, would have to involve risk-taking. It isn’t simply adding new
things to a film. They have to be elements that are so different from the
previous films in the series that it might disappoint the audience or
disinterest them. For example, it was a risky move for Dino de Laurentiis to
set his 1976 remake in (then) present day because the original was firmly set
in 1933. It’s a rare to see a film that is both an expansion of style and
experimental. It doesn’t always make it good, but it’s always interesting.
Honestly, with the films we’ve covered so far in the “Kong Quest” ( 😛 ), the
only one that truly qualifies as both is the 1933 original (although, that’ll
change next week).
If you’d like to learn
more about the Entertaining Info Dump, I recommend listening to the bonus
feature Mr. Scherschel and I did on the film descriptions for KVR.
Until then, get ready for
the next week’s episode on the worst film covered on MIFV so far: King Kong Lives!
